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The name of Domenico De Masi is impressing by his dozens of works published throughout his already complete eight decades of life (born February 1, 1938, in Molise, Italy). The face of the new concept of an elderly (great, cheerful and well-known) sociologist, a teacher, a speaker and a writer is an avant-garde. The creator of the concept of “the creative leisure” glimpses and proclaims the important changes for the future of humanity in his book “The Future Has Arrived”.

The fear generated by the great admiration of his personality, works and ideas, disappears when the theorist friendly smiles to you and says: "I love Brazil!". From his office in Rome via Skype De Masi has given an interview to editor of NOI magazine Caroline Pierosan, being completely approachable and warm. The professor speaks Portuguese, mostly uses English but preferred to express himself in his beautiful mother tongue which is Italian*. Talking with De Masi for sure is a lot of learning, laughing, and deep reflection. Keep reading about it below.

Caroline Pierosan: “The Future Has Arrived” proposes to look for the values from the history of 15 previous human societies to build a life model for the post-industrial world that "could be happy." How should it look like?

Domenico De Masi: Brazil today is what the world will be in the future. From my observations the country from outside, I believe that it has one of the most extraordinary social models ever created by the human being. Brazil has several factors that the other countries do not have, for example, miscegenation among 47 ethnic groups, a mixture of cultures and a peaceful coexistence between them. Brazilian culture is a great potential, and Brazil has to be conscious of that to elaborate and to expand it into the world.

What aspects of Brazilian culture bring us closer to happiness, and which distance us from it?

For over 450 years Brazil was imitating Europe, then for 50 years imitating USA. You should imitate none but adopt its values. Brazil has a sense of life, a rhythm and musicality, a beauty of interpersonal relationships. Brazilians are very extroverted. North Americans lack all these positive values. Brazil is a country surrounded by ten other nations and never provoked a war with anyone (except with Paraguay in the XIX century). It is a country of peaceful culture internally and externally, based more on values of well-spent free time than working time. In Brazil there is also valued a collective life, a culture, popular festivals; sensuality and joy. The "Brazilian way" is positive because it makes people more flexible. What may be lacking for Brazilians is a bit of organizational serenity. In general, I would say they are little inaccurate and unreliable.

The theme of your major conference at ESARH 2014, held in Gramado, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil, was "Happiness at Work: a Possible Challenges?". How to achieve this happiness?

Happiness at work comes from the creative self-realization that cannot be achieved by only a manual work. It happens when workers are assured of freedom, a peaceful co-operation with others, a direct connection between life and work, reduction of uncertainties, friendship and other factors to make them feel that work is a part of their life. A creative work can never be replaced by machines and cannot be controlled. It could be but, on the other hand, it does not mean it will be done in the same way. A creative work takes a lot of energy, but it is a lot of pleasure and fun, it enriches us and makes us grow intellectually. A purely manual work makes people feel more bored, uglier, less willing, and, I believe, less happy. Freedom, creative participation and result through motivation bring happiness.

You defend the substitution of a control for motivation. How to motivate someone to work more and better?

People make an effort when they are happy! The classic organization of the great North American business school proclaims that people make an effort when they are controlled, and that is a big mistake. No creative work (today 70% of world human work) must be controlled because it discourages the workers. A creative work has no schedule. You also work when you are at the cinema. While you are watching a movie a part of your brain thinks about the article that you have to write. It is easier just to control, but the quality of the result is inversely proportional. You just have to control those who does not motivate you. Every entrepreneur must understand the culture of his country, his region and his company. It is necessary to create a Brazilian way of administration adapted to the Brazilian mentality, which differs from the US one.

Serra Gaúcha is known for its attachment to work. Here happiness is associated with financial prosperity. What advice would you give to those rich descendants of immigrants who tends to accumulate numbers in the bank and often does not invest them in the quality of life?

We have two types of needs: the quantitative, represented by power and material possessions, and qualitative, represented by friendships, love, beauty, coexistence and self-awareness which do not cost anything and impossible to be gained for money. We need to pay more attention to the qualitative needs because the quantitative ones only lead us to the detachment. The more money I have, the more I want; the more I have power, the more I desire.

There are many steps in the history of a people. The first was about working hard in order to improve family conditions. This was the period of poverty of immigrants from Germany and Italy in the end of XIX - beginning of XX century. Than after this the descendants had to work a bit less but continued to have strictly working days and days when they could completely rest out of the work.

The proposal of the post-industrial model is not to know whether I'm working, resting or having fun. What I do is how I live. It is not about older generation which had to work hard, and now a younger generation works a little. Nowadays the younger generation requires “the creative leisure”, where everything is mixed: a fun, a work and a study. The first and already second generations of the immigrants should have an education based on qualitative concepts. 

Read this content in portuguese:

https://www.revistanoi.com.br/editorias/inovacao/trabalho-e-felicidade.html